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South Africa and Rhodesian FALs.

enbloc8

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A couple odd things here are the f69 S African R3? not having any carry handle and the top one that somehow made it back to SA doesn't have remnants of the carry handle. It's hard to tell as there is enough demand that many could easily fake Rhodesian rifle missing parts or add & weather paint to a previously cleaned up rifle.

There may be some bipod cut somewhere in pictures, but I'd think Belgian made SA or SA made would all have nbc handguards. I have one set that almost matches, but it's SA plastic on one side and Belgian nbc on the other. Did Belgian Congo have bipod cut? I know there are ZA Imbels, but those were post Rhodesia.
I expect most if not all of these are former Rhodesian rifles that were sold into the South African civilian market from Zimbabwe. Supposedly after a certain point (when American imports were cut off, and I imagine the European market as well) the only remaining market for them was South Africa. Takes quite a bit of hoop-jumping to qualify for the license, but it's actually easier to possess one today than under the old pre-1994 government (where it was all but impossible), and there are a few outfits that refurbish them for the civilian market.
 

firedog

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Yes, ex-Portuguese that were "transferred" (one way or another) after the Portuguese decided to hang it up and quit their African colonies in 1974-75.
yup...I think that there are a couple in that well known pic of RAR troops in the back of a vehicle. Mix of FN's, G3's, Mag58 and I think a couple of G1's. I recall there were more pics but I cannot remember.
 

sbl11

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A couple odd things here are the f69 S African R3? not having any carry handle and the top one that somehow made it back to SA doesn't have remnants of the carry handle. It's hard to tell as there is enough demand that many could easily fake Rhodesian rifle missing parts or add & weather paint to a previously cleaned up rifle.

There may be some bipod cut somewhere in pictures, but I'd think Belgian made SA or SA made would all have nbc handguards. I have one set that almost matches, but it's SA plastic on one side and Belgian nbc on the other. Did Belgian Congo have bipod cut? I know there are ZA Imbels, but those were post Rhodesia.
I’m sorry, but there are numerous pictures of bipod cut hand guards in Rhodesia.

I’m unsure why you would immediately assume the rifles in the auction to have been faked. The narrative that type 3’s not existing in rhodesia has been disproven.


I guess this is a case of “you can take a horse to the water, but can’t make it drink”. The evidence is clear.
 

Abacab

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I’m sorry, but there are numerous pictures of bipod cut hand guards in Rhodesia.

I’m unsure why you would immediately assume the rifles in the auction to have been faked. The narrative that type 3’s not existing in rhodesia has been disproven.


I guess this is a case of “you can take a horse to the water, but can’t make it drink”. The evidence is clear.
My kit is 292150 on the lower and the barrel with BPC handguards. I guess I really won't be able to make heads or tails of it until I have it in person but I'm suspicious of the handguards even if the proof is there that the Rhodesians had them.
 

allamerican401

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I’m sorry, but there are numerous pictures of bipod cut hand guards in Rhodesia.

I’m unsure why you would immediately assume the rifles in the auction to have been faked. The narrative that type 3’s not existing in rhodesia has been disproven.


I guess this is a case of “you can take a horse to the water, but can’t make it drink”. The evidence is clear.
I just thought it was odd. Not the normal SA. Like the missing carry handle on the SA model alongside it. Rhodesia could've got them from anywhere. Possibly the Congo, Libya, anywhere. They had G1's & Commonwealth pattern also.

I didn't assume it was faked. I just started that it's hard to tell anymore. People here and there are building tribute rifles. Look how many people here put rhodesian paint on za or even non za imbels. Unpainted bc handguards could also be imbels swapped by zimbabwe onto former rhodesian rifles with damaged handguards, especially if not painted. I'd be curious if Belgian or Imbel if I came across any.
 
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sbl11

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My kit is 292150 on the lower and the barrel with BPC handguards. I guess I really won't be able to make heads or tails of it until I have it in person but I'm suspicious of the handguards even if the proof is there that the Rhodesians had them.
Yea, your rifle left the factory with nbc hand guards. In rhodesia, all bets are off. So, if you want to make yourself feel good, assume they were changed there due to damaged originals.
 

sbl11

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I just thought it was odd. Not the normal SA. Like the missing carry handle on the SA model alongside it. Rhodesia could've got them from anywhere. Possibly the Congo, Libya, anywhere. They had G1's & Commonwealth pattern also.

I didn't assume it was faked. I just started that it's hard to tell anymore. People here and there are building tribute rifles. Look how many people here put rhodesian paint on za or even non za imbels. Unpainted bc handguards could also be imbels swapped by zimbabwe onto former rhodesian rifles with damaged handguards, especially if not painted. I'd be curious if Belgian or Imbel if I came across any.
I believe those auction photos are at least 10 years old. It seems the vast majority of interest in rhodesian FALs took off 5 years ago with the huge (crazy) price jumps marking the interest increase. I don’t think South Africa has the collector following that would make me nervous of fakes, especially being that they are more common place to find there.
 

enbloc8

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I believe those auction photos are at least 10 years old. It seems the vast majority of interest in rhodesian FALs took off 5 years ago with the huge (crazy) price jumps marking the interest increase. I don’t think South Africa has the collector following that would make me nervous of fakes, especially being that they are more common place to find there.
I downloaded that picture (and a few more) within the last few years..that said, I don't recall how old the auction was.

My impression is that the South African market wants "SADF" style FNs, black or (in a few cases) nutria brown. I don't think I've seen a single picture of one that was repainted in Rhodesian camouflage.

There are political issues associated with FNs and (especially) Rhodesia in that part of the world...rifles that were sold to the South African market from Zimbabwe in more recent years had their RA-numbers crudely ground off. And on the old "FN FAL Owners" group, there was a fellow from Zimbabwe that had managed to purchase one for a ranch rifle (out of South Africa, ironically)...he said that if you applied for anything else the authorities usually had no problem, but would look at you crosseyed and give you extra scrutiny if you wanted an FN.
 

Armsdad

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The congo rifle I saw in a museum has non bipod cut handguards. Its like paco's congo rifle. Theres pics here somewhere..I have a kit like pacos rifle.. but Ive put a nice belgian wood C stock on mine..theres a carry handle and nbc hg on this guys rifle. Pics from the net searchin for congo soldiers n guns
 

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Armsdad

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Heres what I have worked on today. Mixing paint. And yes I know its not an r1 receiver Im practicing for when I can afford the right one. Now I will make it look old, used and worn
 

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allamerican401

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The congo rifle I saw in a museum has non bipod cut handguards. Its like paco's congo rifle. Theres pics here somewhere..I have a kit like pacos rifle.. but Ive put a nice belgian wood C stock on mine..theres a carry handle and nbc hg on this guys rifle. Pics from the net searchin for congo soldiers n guns
It's hard to tell from my pictures, but they are OD green, lighter than Greek set I have.. After looking at your pictures, I wonder if these aren't Belgian Congo. IMG_20220304_195913520.jpg IMG_20220304_195936206.jpg
 

Armsdad

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I sold off my unknown green hg..went with black fn nbc hg on my congo kit. The 2 ive seen looked like black nbc. But heres my current rhodie build. Orig paint on top cover, hg, grip, and rear half of stock. Im still workin with it but its lookin good I thought.
 

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Armsdad

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A progress update. Matched color a tad better and started making it look more used. The hg, top cover and a little more than rear half of stock is still original paint. Color match is a pain in the butt. I will not do another one like this. Be better to just get one with no paint and start from scratch.
 

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Sh3008

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A progress update. Matched color a tad better and started making it look more used. The hg, top cover and a little more than rear half of stock is still original paint. Color match is a pain in the butt. I will not do another one like this. Be better to just get one with no paint and start from scratch.
looks great! Nice job blending the two.
 

Armsdad

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Had about 30 mins so got the barrel on before dark today. Gotta put all the small stuff on and headspace it. May get to shoot it tomorroow. Added orig. painted mag for pics. I think my yellow needs a hint of red or orange in the mix. Did I say it was hard to match old paint ?That was an understatement. I think I may have to take more paint chips off the receivers. Also , even the original painted parts were not exact matches. Or from same rifles. Close but not exact. So its hard to get
an overall correct paint color mix . Im just gonna go with it. And work on it overtime .
 

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otis61

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It looks good!!! One thing I always wondered about these. Do you think the paint wore faster off the plastic parts, or the metal parts faster?

I thought the metal parts but, I might not be right.
 

Armsdad

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I have seen more paint on plastic. This stock had one side that had most its paint still , the other side was half paint still. The hg still had paint. The lower had very little left on it. Only still had paint in areas hard to get to or not handled much. I have had a lower or 2 with still alota paint left. Guess it just depended on how and who used it. People in the US used to get this stuff and remove the paint. They were considerd junk fal kits is what I been told by a few ol timers. There is a rhodesian clone on broker fetchin $2,500 already with allota time left to bid. It is not my rifle. Looks similar to this one but looks to be all new paint. But It does have a dsa r1 receiver and I just started with an in the white century type 3 that Ive had to do alotta work to the recvr. Mag wouldnt fit, ejector block didnt fit and it wasnt cut back far enough for a mag to even start in. Beware of these unless you like to make stuff work. It already had started to naturally rust blue some in areas so that was a plus for this build and it was only $150 so that made me start with it . I may get an r1 receiver later for it. It will do for now.
 
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Armsdad

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Got bolt n carrier. Now just gotta headspace and put gas system on, mag fit and seemed ok, gotta finish drilling the e block pin holes through one side..then see if it runs. Mag catch and all that went in. Tested mag.
 

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Czech Mate

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New to me Rhodesian rifle. I'm more of a Russian AK guy than a Rhodesian FAL guy so I'd appreciate any information you could provide. What (I think) I know about this rifle is that this is an early R1. Serial number on the SA lower shows 10863 with a pair of interlocking triangles, and the bolt and upper are marked with matching Rhodesian serial numbers RA10062. No other parts are serialized as far as I can tell. Why they are so close but not matching is a mystery to me. It's got a wood stock that I believe to be original, as well as pretty trashed handguards that I would assume are original as well. Barrel looks like new, and there are no markings so I'm assuming that has been replaced. Not sure about the rest of it.

My goals for this rifle is to
1) find out from you guys any information you could provide about it since I've never had an early R1 and I'm a bit unfamiliar with them
2) replace the receiver with the spare DSA SA upper I have
3) get rid of this bad fake baby poop camo
4) try to find some authentic baby poop furniture and restore it to somewhat normal.

And information you could potentially provide would be greatly appreciated.

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