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Kyle Rittenhouse (The Kenosha Kid)

starbuck

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I read somewhere that kyle admitted to participating in a straw purchase to acquire his ar15. That could get him burned. Most people might get away with a slap on the wrist but he'll likely get burned for it. The news seems to only be attacking the purchaser though.
 

Tak

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From what I read, Kyle gave money to his friend who was 18 from Wisconsin to buy the rifle.
He was going to transfer it to him when Kyle turned 18.
He loaned the rifle to Kyle when he was in Wisconsin.
If all of that is true, it's not a straw purchase as far as I know.
 

juanni

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Kyle claimed he took possession of the rifle and stored it at his step fathers house. That's the news report I read, so salt to taste. Could be total lies.
I think you got that a little mixed up.
Black bought the gun and stored it Black's stepfathers house in Kenosha.

According to the criminal complaint against Black, the weapon used in the shootings was purchased on May 1 at the Wisconsin gun store Ladysmith Ace Home Center by Black, who prosecutors claim was “aware” Rittenhouse could not have made the purchase himself. Since Rittenhouse was an Illinois resident he also did not have an Illinois Firearm Owner Identification card, so the pair agreed to have the weapon stored at Black’s stepfather’s house in Kenosha, the complaint says.

Not seeing how Black broke the law, but that means little in our justice system.


...........juanni
 
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Right Side Up

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I think you got that a little mixed up.
Black bought the gun and stored it Black's stepfathers house in Kenosha.

According to the criminal complaint against Black, the weapon used in the shootings was purchased on May 1 at the Wisconsin gun store Ladysmith Ace Home Center by Black, who prosecutors claim was “aware” Rittenhouse could not have made the purchase himself. Since Rittenhouse was an Illinois resident he also did not have an Illinois Firearm Owner Identification card, so the pair agreed to have the weapon stored at Black’s stepfather’s house in Kenosha, the complaint says.

Not seeing how Black broke the law, but that means little in our justice system.


...........juanni
Here's the story I read. Could be just a story. So salt to taste, as I said in my previous post. Hard to tell if something is true in the news anymore.


https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...se-says-purchased-ar-15-covid-stimulus-check/


"On November 10, 2020, Breitbart News reported that 19-year-old Dominick Black was charged for allegedly buying the AR-15 for Rittenhouse. ABC 7 cited an affidavit claiming Black allegedly took money from Rittenhouse, “then on May 1st he drove 300 miles north from Kenosha to a hardware store in upper Wisconsin to buy the [AR-15].”

Upon getting the rifle, Rittenhouse, a resident of Antioch, Illinois, allegedly stored the gun at his stepfather’s house in Kenosha. He then allegedly retrieved the firearm during the Jacob Blake riots and took it with him when he went."
 

juanni

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Breitbart bungled it, their link in your posted article says...

Less than four months later, investigators say Rittenhouse retrieved the rifle from Black's stepfather's house in Kenosha where it was being kept, and carried it while on citizen's patrol, allegedly to protect a business from looters and arsonists.





..............juanni
 

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From what I read, Kyle gave money to his friend who was 18 from Wisconsin to buy the rifle.
He was going to transfer it to him when Kyle turned 18.
He loaned the rifle to Kyle when he was in Wisconsin.
If all of that is true, it's not a straw purchase as far as I know.

That is a straw purchase.

He did not purchase the rifle for his own use with his own money.

He purchased the rifle with Kyle's money with the intent to transfer it to him.
 

hkshooter

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Wiki says, " A straw purchase or nominee purchase is any purchase wherein an agent agrees to acquire a good or service for someone who is unable or unwilling to purchase the good or service themselves, and the agent transfers the goods or services to that person after purchasing them."

It also says, " In the United States, a straw purchaser of a firearm at a federally licensed firearm dealership who lies about the identity of the ultimate possessor of the gun can be charged with making false statements on a federal Firearms Transaction Record. If a firearm is purchased as a gift, the transaction is not a straw purchase, and the person buying the gift is considered the end user. It is illegal for any person not in possession of a Federal Firearms License to purchase a firearm with the intention of resale. Private purchases in lawful sales made outside of federally regulated dealerships are not subject to such rules and are legal unless the gun is used in a crime with the prior knowledge of the straw purchaser."

This topic always seems to be cut and dry until one starts adding in the circumstances. In my view the Rittenhouse purchase in itself wasn't a straw purchase until his step father gave Kyle the rifle before Kyle was of legal age to own it. There is no law against gifting a firearm but then here we are in the gray area. He did give him the rifle and let him leave with it, likely knowing what Kyle's intentions were. So months after the fact, does this make it a straw purchase? Or simply supplying a firearm to someone unable to legally own it? That's what lawyers and judges are for.
In Indiana it isn't illegal to possess a rifle under the age or 18, only to purchase it yourself. Had this happened in Indiana I'd say no laws concerning the firearm purchase or later transfer to Kyle were broken. But the courts may disagree.

Note that nowhere above does it say the source of the funds to purchase the firearm determines the purchase was illegal or not. Funds source has no bearing on the matter.
 

RG Coburn

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That's not true.

If you use your money to buy a firearm and gift it to me, that's legal.

If I give you the funds to purchase a firearm with the intent of you transferring it to me, that's a straw purchase.
Confusing...
"gift"....."gave"....same basic root words. A gift is something one gives to another. If I gave you something,it is a gift. If I gave you money,it is yours. If you gifted me a firearm,its mine.(unless its stolen,which is another matter)
 

juanni

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That's not true.

If you use your money to buy a firearm and gift it to me, that's legal.

If I give you the funds to purchase a firearm with the intent of you transferring it to me, that's a straw purchase.
I think the issue is not the funds, it is Black transferred the rifle to Kyle by allowing him to pick it up (if that is what happened) rather than Black was in possession, present and allowed Kyle to shoot it or use it.



.............juanni
 

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Transferring a firearm to a prohibited person is a different issue than a straw sale.

If you purchase a firearm with your own money and then give it to me, that's a gift. There is no straw sale. If I'm a prohibited person, then giving it to me isn't lawful.

If we agree that you will do the paperwork on a firearm at the ffl, then hand the gun to me and that I'll pay you for the gun, either before or after you sign it out, that's a straw sale.

On the other hand, if you buy a gun, don't like it and then sell it to me, that's perfectly legal.

Intent can be a critical part of a straw sale and can be difficult to prove, unless someone admits to it because they do not understand the concept of a straw sale.
 

Tak

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That's not true.

If you use your money to buy a firearm and gift it to me, that's legal.

If I give you the funds to purchase a firearm with the intent of you transferring it to me, that's a straw purchase.
either way it will be a tough fight in court. Isn't a key pillar of the 'straw purchase' law the fact that the final posessor of the firearm is not legally permitted to own or posses a firearm? If the friend did not intend to and/or did not actually transfer ownership or permanent possesion to Kyle until Kyle was legally allowed to own or permanetly possess the weapon, was this really a straw purchase?

If I'm 15 and I save up my paper route money, give it to my Dad, and ask him to buy me a special 100th anniversary commemorative Rifle since it's a limited run and they won't be available when I'm 18, and Dad buys it and stores it at his house, lets me use it a couple times a year at the range, and the ultimate intent is to tranfer it to me when Im 18, is that a straw purchase?

In Illinois, I don't believe it's legal in any way for someone under 18 to own a firearm. It is legal to temporarily posses one (your Dad or Uncle can give you a rifle on the weekend when you all go hunting, or if you went to the gun range).

If the Friend didn't give owenership of the rifle to Kyle, but merely allowed him to temporarily posses it when Kyle stored it at a stepfather's house, who is still the owner, and if Kyle isn't at the house with control of it, is he owning it? Is he possessing it, or is the Stepfather possesing it?

I don't know the laws. Kyle isn't old enough for a FOID so I don't think he can even possess a firearm legally in Illinois without the supervision of a FOID card holder.
 

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Isn't a key pillar of the 'straw purchase' law the fact that the final posessor of the firearm is not legally permitted to own or posses a firearm?
No. That has absolutely nothing to do with defining a straw purchase. It is a common misconception and it's why many people admit to straw purchases as they don't believe they've done one.

Transfering a firearm to a prohibited person is a different issue.

A key to a straw purchase is intent, which can be difficult to prove unless someone admits to it.

If, at the time you fill out the 4473, your intention is to hand that gun over to someone who has already paid you for it or has made an agreement to pay you for it, that is a straw sale.

Without an admission, that transaction can be indistinguishable from buying a gun for personal use and then later selling or gifting it to a friend.
 
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This seems like a good reason to never talk to PoPo. Use the 5th!

Or post your crime on the internet because you don't understand the law.

I've seen a lot of people post admissions of doing straw sales and buying guns and ammo for resale, all of which put you at risk of a stay at club fed.

One can buy guns and ammo for personal use and then decide to sell it, that's entirely lawful.

What is illegal for a non ffl to do is to buy guns and ammo for the purpose of resale.

The crime is in the intent which is usually impossible to prove, unless the dumbass is bragging on the internet on how much money he's going to make on some gun or ammo that he bought only for resale.
 

STGThndr

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Any idiot can be taught to load a mag and pull a trigger on an AR in what, 30 seconds?
He either lives inside a CDU/locked down unit, solitary confinement till he goes mad, or his ass gets murdered or punked out in the general population.
And,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,he's now out of the fight forever........
It could well be that he is DEEPLY into the fight.. if he hasnt already he will meet some bad*** White guys in prison. He will be welcomed as another soldier in the left-right struggle to control the prisons.. best wishes and God bless, Kyle.
 
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