Et Tu, PSA? (Or why I got daggered)

[ByronF]

A firm nipple that I find to be undesirable.

 

[ByronF]

I believe this poorly aligned fin puts the trigger bar and shoe in a torqued bind, causing the failure to reset. With The trigger NOT squeezed the fin drags. That's bad enough. But when the trigger is squeezed the fin raises up and to the rear. Now the nipple engages on the edge to which I am pointing. The Dagger trigger has developed a burr on the top of the nipple, supporting this theory. I'd be curious how many Dagger frames wearing Glock slides have had the nipple eroded away.

 

[ByronF]

Another reason the Dagger trigger sort of stinks up the joint is the hinged design. The pressure and travel required to compress the swingy bottom half is significant! So no matter what one does to the bar and disconnector, the feeling of the shoe safety itself will still feel long and mushy. By comparison the Glock-style shoe' s center blade is nearly imperceptible. And the DAT feels cleaner and shorter than the Glock.

I see nothing in the Dagger bar or shoe worth keeping (ACTUALLY, KEEP READING)

 

[ByronF]

I just dremeled off the trigger bar fin nipple. Trigger resets perfectly. No drag no matter how hard I squeeze it. Not even terrible anymore. In fact, if I'd not already ordered the DAT I would not have bothered to replace it.

 

[ByronF]

Further comparisons.

1. The Dagger still feels better in the hand than my modified G19 frame, and WAY better than a factory G19. To me fit in hand matters a lot. I grant +5 points to Dagger.

2. The trigger, once modified by grinding off the nipple and polishing the starboard flank of the fin, sucks far less than a factory Glock trigger. And while I still prefer the Overwatch DAT, had I done this before ordering the DAT I would have kept that $50 in my wallet. Not sure how to score this. I can fix a Dagger with a Dremel. I can fix a Glock with $50. I'll call a draw since Dagger has a manufacturing defect and Glock has an intentional design defect.

3. There is more fore-aft wiggle in an inserted mag than a G19. A loaded mag is less noticeable due to spring tension. Only function testing will reveal if this is an actual issue. The Dagger is easy to stuff in a mag. I'll give Glock a +1 point for mag wiggle.

4. The mag release spring is pretty tight on the Dagger. Tighter than a Glock. I'm picking nits here. In the plus side PSA didnt mold a "thumb rest" that inhibits my reach to the button. So +1 non-retard point to PSA.

5. The Dagger chamber is too tight to work. Many others apparently work. I can only grade my own papers. Actually working out of the box matters. +10 to Glock.

6. Glocks fit Glock holsters. Daggers fit Dagger holsters, and some Glock holsters. +10 points for Glock fitting their holsters. Would it have been too hard for Daggers to fit Glock holsters?

7. Neither Glocks nor Daggers are P80s. Which means they don't appear to have been hewn out of marine plywood with a jigsaw. +10 to both Glock and PSA.

 

[hkshooter]

Tonight I picked up a gen 4 grock 22. I field stripped it to check it over and instantly saw something that made me think of this very thread and the trouble you were having with your frame. I haven't seen a new grock in quite some time, let alone a specific model. I say to this so you'll know from what experience I speak of. I was a Glock armorer back in the 90's and that's the last experience I've had with them.
What I saw that make me raise an eye brow was the exact same tit on the trigger bar fin that was giving you fits in your PSA. And this is a 22. 40 cal. Not 19, 9mm. Could you have got the wrong frame shipped to you, a 40 cal vs a 9mm cal?

 

[1911Ron]

Tonight I picked up a gen 4 grock 22. I field stripped it to check it over and instantly saw something that made me think of this very thread and the trouble you were having with your frame. I haven't seen a new grock in quite some time, let alone a specific model. I say to this so you'll know from what experience I speak of. I was a Glock armorer back in the 90's and that's the last experience I've had with them.
What I saw that make me raise an eye brow was the exact same tit on the trigger bar fin that was giving you fits in your PSA. And this is a 22. 40 cal. Not 19, 9mm. Could you have got the wrong frame shipped to you, a 40 cal vs a 9mm cal?

Interesting.

 

[ByronF]

PSA markets only 9mm Daggers. It's just a crap trigger bar. The titty might not be an issue except the entire fin is mislocated.

I paid $100 for a Dagger lower and a stripped AR15 lower. If a new trigger fixes it then I'm not as irritated as I was initially. The shape and feel of the grip is worth that to me. I always considered the Glock a terrific top end with a mediocre frame. If this frame works after adding a trigger then I'll be satisfied.

 

[hkshooter]

Does anyone have a gen 4 G19 frame they can check the trigger bar in? See if the tit is there or not.

 

[ByronF]

I'm understanding the titty is a Gen 4 "improvement". I guess the previous generations needed to be fixed, and only a metal titty would do it... somehow.

Not sure how to break it to my Gen 3 Glocks that their trigger bars needed to be fixed.

 

[hkshooter]

I'm understanding the titty is a Gen 4 "improvement". I guess the previous generations needed to be fixed, and only a metal titty would do it... somehow.

Not sure how to break it to my Gen 3 Glocks that their trigger bars needed to be fixed.

No shit. If "Glock Perfection" was so perfect, why did they have to "fix" it? There were three gens of Glock that worked well, why did 4th gen get a tit? I don't get it but I'm no expert or engineer.

No matter. I picked up a 4th gen 22 to be a beater, tool bag, DGAF about it go-to. I'm sure it'll work when called on. I hate it and it's the only Glock I own and have owned since about 1996. But I'd feel bad about beating up and scratching to hell an HK, 1911, or about anything other than a Glock. So here we are.

 

[ByronF]

Some reading suggests the titty was a solution to some issue related to flipping the mag release over for left handed shooters. I'll not prevent to understand, and since I'm not a lefty I also will not bother to investigate further.

 

[richbug]

So thus lies the ultimate question:

“To buy, or not to buy? That is the question—Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, Or to take arms against a sea of troubles, And, by opposing, end them?”

Still on sale for $100 for 2...

 

[ByronF]

If one is OK with the deal assuming its an empty plastic frame, and that some internal parts may be usable, and if the grip shape is more agreeable than a Glock, then its worth considering.

 

[richbug]

So I let my self try a couple. One with a "free" AR lower, one with a "free" laser. Unfortunately the laser doesn't fit the dagger, or any other handgun I could find, it goes on the rail, but doesn't slide back to the trigger guard.

The one with the 63000 serial number, dropped right into a GEN 3 Austrian G19 upper assembly, and ran 2 mags perfectly. The one with a 72000 serial number has the problem you found.

The 72000 one did drop right onto a gen 3 USA G23 upper, didn't try firing it yet, but it hand cycles fine.

I don't hate the triggers, not a Glock trigger but better than many other striker fired guns I have tried.

 

[ByronF]

Which problem did 72000 have? A trigger that can hold back the slide? Or a throat so short it can't be unloaded by hand because the bullet is jammed into the rifling?

 

[ByronF]

So I let my self try a couple. One with a "free" AR lower, one with a "free" laser. Unfortunately the laser doesn't fit the dagger, or any other handgun I could find, it goes on the rail, but doesn't slide back to the trigger guard.

The one with the 63000 serial number, dropped right into a GEN 3 Austrian G19 upper assembly, and ran 2 mags perfectly. The one with a 72000 serial number has the problem you found.

The 72000 one did drop right onto a gen 3 USA G23 upper, didn't try firing it yet, but it hand cycles fine.

I don't hate the triggers, not a Glock trigger but better than many other striker fired guns I have tried.

If you need to borrow a throating reamer let me know. Mine came in tonight, dressed up both barrels, both pass plunk test just fine now. Dagger barrels are DLC over stainless. DLC cannot be applied to an inside diameter so these barrels can be fixed.

 

[richbug]

Which problem did 72000 have? A trigger that can hold back the slide? Or a throat so short it can't be unloaded by hand because the bullet is jammed into the rifling?

No trigger reset, could feel a funky interaction when racking the slide.

I might take you up on the reamer, I was going to use a rusty drill bit and brace I bought at the Amish benefit auction, but the proper tools might be a better choice.

 

[ByronF]

No trigger reset, could feel a funky interaction when racking the slide.

I might take you up on the reamer, I was going to use a rusty drill bit and brace I bought at the Amish benefit auction, but the proper tools might be a better choice.

Shave off the useless nipple and see how you like it. I think it'll pass muster. And your fingers look like freezer burned kielbasa so I doubt you'll have any complaints so long as it goes BANG.

For throat length I figured you'd make bullets from steel case 32 auto to clearance it, but reamer offer stands.

 

[ByronF]

No trigger reset, could feel a funky interaction when racking the slide.

I might take you up on the reamer, I was going to use a rusty drill bit and brace I bought at the Amish benefit auction, but the proper tools might be a better choice.

"Amish benefit auction". Took me a minute. EVERY auction is an Amish benefit auction.

 

[ByronF]

Having a tarted up Dagger isnt far different from side pipes and a wing on a Chevy Citation, is it?

I'm being an ass. These seem like pistol bargains for guys like us who can fix stuff and recognize correct vs noncomforming and solve the issues. I would not recommend to friends and family who aren't gun people.

 

[hkshooter]

Having a tarted up Dagger isnt far different from side pipes and a wing on a Chevy Citation, is it?

A Camaro, maybe?
Don't tell Gary but today I heard Chevy is dropping the Camaro and 2024 will be the last model year. He'll be crushed because he'll have to plan to buy some other high mile jalopy in 20 years.

 

[ByronF]

A Camaro, maybe?
Don't tell Gary but today I heard Chevy is dropping the Camaro and 2024 will be the last model year. He'll be crushed because he'll have to plan to by some other high mile jalopy in 20 years.

Shit. He's getting out the tire black and armor-all now that Camaro shitboxes are suddenly vintage collectibles.

Hell, he may even be able to trade it back for the SAR1 he bought it with (that is now somehow a $1200 rifel).

 

[base704]

Christ.
All of this "Johnny fuck around". . .
Buy a Glock, or buy a Dagger.
You keep fucking with shit that isn't worth the little $ you're saving.
If this is just for recreational purposes and you enjoy the "fuck around", carry on.
If you're looking for a handgun that works, buy one or the other.
I personally wouldn't want to depend on a bastard mix of the two. . .


I personally can't see the "savings" being worth the headaches.

YMMV.

 

[ByronF]

Christ.
All of this "Johnny fuck around". . .
Buy a Glock, or buy a Dagger.
You keep fucking with shit that isn't worth the little $ you're saving.
If this is just for recreational purposes and you enjoy the "fuck around", carry on.
If you're looking for a handgun that works, buy one or the other.
I personally wouldn't want to depend on a bastard mix of the two. . .


I personally can't see the "savings" being worth the headaches.

YMMV.

Rinse out the sand and rub some salve in it.