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Old February 19, 2019, 13:32   #1
W.E.G.
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Palmetto PA-10 the good and the bad

I re-named this thread on April 10, 2019.
Previous name of thread was "Most popular AR-10 these days?"
Current thread-name is more descriptive of the overall picture of what this thread is about.


I know DPMS got their foot in the door first as being the "go-to" or "military" standard for modern AR-10 pattern guns. I guess DPMS is still selling a fair number. But, at some point, I have to think the price-point is the primary driving force.

Does the U.S. Military even still procure any AR-10 pattern guns, or have they already moved-on to other proprietary-chassis guns in .363 Geewhillikkers, or some such, for harder targets?

$580 plus the cost of a transfer and a magazine can get you a working Palmetto AR-10 these days if you are willing to part-together the project by getting a complete lower through a FFL, and then a complete upper delivered to you separately.

At least DPMS sort of looks like they are trying to stay in the game. I see the "Oracle" (complete blasty 16" carbine) version of the LR-308 on GoneBroker bouncing around at mid-$750 prices. Almost a $200 difference - which really isn't much money if are already into DPMS-pattern, and you are trying to stay with one pattern of AR-10. Yet, gun people are cheap bastards. You know which one they are probably gonna buy if there is $180 difference. If there are any appreciable accuracy/reliability issues, I doubt they are great enough to be noticed by the typical "gonna-get-me-one-of-them" buyers.

At this point, there don't seem to be many significant complaints about Palmetto Q/C. DPMS switched to an "improved" version of the LR-308 (lighter?), but may have irked folks who were quite satisfied already with the original "military-pattern" version. I see some references to the Palmetto guns being "over-gassed." Not sure if that is a significant issue, or some weird nit-picky issue that has been overblown on the internet - like Beretta slides cracking or .40 Glocks kabooming.

Are people really buying the bottom-dollar version of the DPMS at all these days? Meanwhile, I gotta believe the "get-me-one-of-them" crowd is digging the low Palmetto price.

Palmetto seems to be still being stingy about selling stripped AR-10 uppers and lowers separately. This is somewhat problematic if somebody wants to build a true "match-grade" upper on a Palmetto-pattern upper. Maybe somebody needs to start buying Palmetto uppers and stripping them apart to be sold as separate parts. I bet you could sell take-off barrels, and latest-greatest, see-thru-cheesegrater handguards for fair coin. I'm not sure what might be involved with fitting a true high-grade barrel, say a Krieger, to a Palmetto upper receiver.

As for the completed Palmetto lowers, they are cheap. Not sure there is much margin in stripping-and-reselling the Palmetto lowers. How much market is there really for salvaged AR-pattern shit-triggers and crapsallapsible stocks? Presumably all the other pins, springs, and detents can be used with the new gee-whiz build. Shit-trigger and crapsallapsible stock can pretty much just go in the trash. Maybe by the time you have twenty or a hundered-and-twenty of them, sell them buy the pound on GoneBroker. A good AR-pattern trigger can literally cost a hundred dollars MORE than a complete Palmetto lower.

At what point does the de-facto "most popular" AR-10 crown get handed-over to Palmetto?
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Old February 19, 2019, 13:49   #2
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Yes,

The Army bought the Knights SR-25. Very spendy and scheduled to replaced ASAP.

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Old February 19, 2019, 13:55   #3
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I bought a Windham Weaponry in 308 a few years ago and have been extremely happy with it. it's very accurate and I have had no issues with it at all. However it was close to $1300.00. My oldest son just bought a PSA 20" stainless upper and a PSA generation 2 lower. He's waiting on a scope so we haven't shot it yet. I was surprised at what he got for the price. It appears well made and has zero blemishes. The bolt and bolt carrier are as nice as any I have seen. The upper and lower fit very tight and if it shoots as well as it looks I might just get one.
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Old February 19, 2019, 14:04   #4
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Oh, and South Carolina is not (yet) charging SALES TAX to out-of-state purchasers.

(not shilling for Palmetto - just making an observation)
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Old February 19, 2019, 16:45   #5
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I've got an Armalite, a Palmetto and a Ruger. Armalite is kinda sorta the traditional....to me anyway. Ruger is the fancy schmantzy one, use it with a suppressor. The Palmetto is definitely the best bang for the buck (caught the upper and lower on sale for a grand total of $458 shipped back about Memorial Day). I've had zero issues and it is pretty accurate for the blaster that I be.
YMMV
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Old February 19, 2019, 19:19   #6
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I built my PSA AR10 piecemeal years ago. Stopped in at the main store a bought a blem lower for $75 OTD. Next year ended up ordering a blem upper for $85 shipped ($69 buy, $4 tax and $12 shipping). When purchased, I made sure they were the PSA DPMS pattern because PSA was moving over to a proprietary upper and lower, and I wasn't sure if the two were compatible. Later got one of their 18" nitrided 1 in 10 barrels and the rest is history.

Once put together, it is sub MOA with any quality ammo. Really likes the 168's with groups running ¾ inch at 100 yards. I have an adjustable gas block so still trying to come up with the sweet spot for the setting.

I would be shooting it more often if I hadn't gotten a 6.5C right after the build. My shoulder thanks me for it on those all day range trips.
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Old February 19, 2019, 21:21   #7
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I received a 20” upper today.

Appearance externally looks excellent.

Looks like a bit of “hand-fitting” done on the feed-ramps of barrel extension.
Wish they would have cleaned that up with a finer-grit tool.

Cotton fiber from one of my Q-Tips on that right-side ramp

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Old February 19, 2019, 21:51   #8
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Originally Posted by W.E.G. View Post
Oh, and South Carolina is not (yet) charging SALES TAX to out-of-state purchasers.

(not shilling for Palmetto - just making an observation)
Actually, depends on your State.

PSA started charging sales tax for Colorado on 01JAN2019.

Just sayin'...

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Old February 20, 2019, 10:47   #9
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Brother W.E.G.: To me the big problem with the AR-10 is the proprietary parts. My PSA Gen 2 upper will not mate on my Aero Precision or my kid's CMMG lower. So much for "DPMS " style AR-ing. Also, the PSA lower is parts specific for the bolt hold-open device and the mag release. They sent me a DPMS hold-open and it will not work in (3) different PSA uppers. I told them I would send it back to them in exchange for a correct one but the graciously said they would just send me a new one. I'll let yall know when it gets here and the rifle gets put back together.

Overall the PSA AR-10 looks purposeful for Homeland Defense Applications although the trigger feels like piece of sandpaper sliding together, which it is getting polished. I like the weight and balance of it (20") and I know it will shoot better than I can.

Also, PSA has the stripped AR-10 lower for $80 pretax on ther ads today, 20 Feb 19.

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Old February 20, 2019, 11:24   #10
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I'm an AR10 dinosaur.

Started with ArmaLite back in the 90's and stuck with the pattern.
Owned many and still have one as my *run through the woods, goto hell, goto war rifle* with a chest rig of loaded mags at the ready.

The pistol mags in the chest rig are also for a dinosaur...1911.

I'll probably be laughed out of camp!
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Old February 20, 2019, 12:05   #11
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I love my [mostly] Aero Precision M5 in 6.5 CM. Easily sub-MOA with Hornady 140 and 147 ELDM, although my preference is for the 140.

Armalite is, at this point, a has-been. Their SR-25/PMag lower was too little too late, and the industry has passed them by. Have fun getting compatible parts.
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Old February 20, 2019, 12:08   #12
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Brother W.E.G.: To me the big problem with the AR-10 is the proprietary parts.
Yeah, that's pretty much the problem with ALL "AR-10" type rifles. Its a real pot-luck for what-goes-with-what.

Check out http://out-of-battery.com/palmetto-s...compatability/ for info on that topic as it was known about interchangability/compatibility at the time the post was written in 2015.

I'm not sure what changes happened with the "Gen 2" version of the Palmetto model. Also not sure what changes have been made since introduction of the "Gen 2." I polished-up that rough work on the barrel extension you see in the pic above. Still doesn't look great, but at least it doesn't look like shit any more. The barrel-extension seems like something they would have sorted by now. I'm guessing the barrel-extension they had in the slap-'em-together box was not cut for an "M4" style lower receiver (feed-ramp scallops molded into the lower receiver), so Bubba customized a non-M4 barrel extension to marry-up (hillbilly-wedding sort of way) with the new gee-whiz M4-style lower.

I want to put a Geissele National Match trigger in the lower. While I was eating my slop this morning, I did a little googling on my phone about Palmetto and Geissle triggers. The National Match version of Geissele triggers seems to be sufficiently-unpopular with Tommy Tactical and Gary Get-me-some sorts that I had no hits for that trigger. Did get some hits for one of the Geissle "tactical" triggers. Big surprise,... needs to be modified to work with the Palmetto lower. Geissele has instructions for the modification. I just sent an email to Geissele to see if they have anything on the National Match trigger that I need to know before I start grinding $250 triggers, bending pins, and peening the pivot-holes on a brand new lower.

I read about lots of folks having issues with the bolt-hold-open not working properly. I think Palmetto did some changes to address that in recent times. At least mine locks back on an empty P-Mag without issue, and it doesn't slam-shut when the mag is removed. So, yay for that anyway.
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Old February 20, 2019, 12:28   #13
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As an owner of an Armalite AR100b, as nice as it is, I realize that it has been obsoleted even further by being surpassed by the Armalite 10a. That leaves neither being compatible with each other or anything else. DPMS is now the closest thing to standard existing, along with the ubiquitous Magpul magazine.

Armalite did do a few things right that others did not adopt. Armalite bolts have what is described as balanced bolt lugs as well as a firing pin return spring. Again not compatible with others. Two nice features passed on by other makers. Probably for economic reasons. That firing pin spring goes a long way to prevent accidental oopsies on a slamming bolt or a dropped weapon with soft primers.
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Old February 20, 2019, 12:35   #14
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I'm basically trying to build a fat-boy version of my CMP Service Rifle.

In case I run into a particularly big squirrel, or to at least use-up some of that 7.62 ball ammo I've been hoarding since when my hairline was three inches closer to my eyebrows.

The Crapsalapsible stock will be replaced with a Magpul Gen1 UBR stock as is the Service Rifle. The PA-10 won't get the lead-weight in the buttstock compartment. I'll just switch the back-halves if I want the weight for a range trip. Finally going to buy a proper wrench for that castle nut. Plan was to get it from the local store today, but its snow-and-sleet out there. I'll just load ammo I guess today. Yes... "loading" ammo even though I've got all that other ammo since back-in-the-hairline days.

Probably will mount another Leupold Mark AR with the awesome green-dot reticle.

The trigger thing is a big deal. I don't want to fool with spending much time on the range with anything that has a trigger that feels at all different than the service rifle trigger. If I start switching between triggers, I shoot the hell out of the berm in front of the target. I've had about enough of that. I'm sure I'll find a way to make the Geissele National Match trigger work.

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Old February 20, 2019, 12:41   #15
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^^^ Have you tried a LaRue MBT?

I think you would like it...2-stage and National Match type.

Can't beat the current price!
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Old February 20, 2019, 12:42   #16
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Plan was to get it from the local store today, but its snow-and-sleet out there. I'll just load ammo I guess today. Yes... "loading" ammo even though I've got all that other ammo since back-in-the-hairline days.
Well, using powder to load ammo will at least get the powder storage nazis off your back...

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Old February 20, 2019, 12:50   #17
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Speaking of the hairline, this would be concealed were it not for the ravages of time.

That and the fact that it seems I cannot walk and chew bubble-gum at the same time.

Just walking down the street.... SUH-LAMMMM!!!... right into a signal box mounted on a pole plain as day. Laid my ass out. Right at an intersection during rush hour. All these soccer-moms stopped and were doing the "Oh... are you alright" thing. I thought about milking it to maybe get laid. But, then I remembered my wife was with me, so I had to act like I was cool. Jump right up, give everybody the "thumbs-up," and try to get down the street like I'm not a bleeding (literally bleeding) COMPLETE idiot.

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Old February 20, 2019, 12:51   #18
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Quote:
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I love my [mostly] Aero Precision M5 in 6.5 CM. Easily sub-MOA with Hornady 140 and 147 ELDM, although my preference is for the 140.

Armalite is, at this point, a has-been. Their SR-25/PMag lower was too little too late, and the industry has passed them by. Have fun getting compatible parts.
If I ever ditch the ArmaLite, it's OBR time for ole TenTea!
After a suitable time to save pennies, unless an unexpected windfall occurs.

https://www.larue.com/category/rifles/obr-7-62/

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Old February 20, 2019, 12:58   #19
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^^^ Have you tried a LaRue MBT?

I think you would like it...2-stage and National Match type.

Can't beat the current price!
I haven't.

The thing about the Geissele National Match trigger (and I'll say now, its not that great) is that it breaks kind of "way out front," unlike a lot of two-stage triggers that break much farther back.

I could probably adjust it some to make it a little lighter, and maybe less "stagey." There's a fairly heavy take up, then a small bit of creep, and then a very clean break with imperceptible overtravel.

Most of the high-quality two-stage triggers out there now also are quite a bit lighter than the 4.5# service rifle trigger. I think mine actually weighs-in a lot higher (although, I probably could adjust some of that out). I can put the full set of National Match trigger weights on all my triggers, and even the extra quarter-pound weight, and the trigger won't break unless I shake the rifle really hard. I had the experience driving to a really important match years ago, and had the Krieger-Milazzo trigger not make weight. That was stressful. Never again.

If I ever give up National Match competitions, I can at least put a lighter spring in the Geissele triggers and make them fight-back less. I put the lighter spring in the shorty-blasty DPMS LR-308T. Didn't change WHERE the trigger breaks, but is noticeably lighter. Interesting that because of the way the trigger is adjusted (didn't change a thing right out of the box), it still makes weight on the 4.5# weight set.
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Old February 20, 2019, 13:04   #20
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Try one...seriously, I predict you will really like one.



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Old February 20, 2019, 13:05   #21
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If I ever ditch the ArmaLite, it's OBR time for ole TenTea!
After a suitable time to save pennies, unless an unexpected windfall occurs.
I'm sure those Larue rifles are nice. They damn-sure better be. You can buy FIVE Palmetto rifles for what one of those costs! At least the Larue price includes a good trigger, and at least a two-position gas block. Not sure whether those two positions can be tuned at all. Won't know whether I have a gas issue with the Palmetto until I've gotten some trigger time on it. I'll never run a suppressor on the Palmetto. I've run suppressors on gas-operated semi-autos, and I just hate the gas cloud that pours out of the ejection port (and back into my eyes). So at least there's one issue I don't have to worry about.
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Old February 20, 2019, 19:44   #22
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If I decide to get into the 308 AR game I'd get the PSA product. You probably can swap out the trigger and barrel and still come out cheaper than competion.
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Old February 20, 2019, 23:35   #23
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I would like to know for sure if the Krieger "DPMS" pattern barrel is a drop-in part for the Palmetto upper.

https://kriegerbarrels.com/srorder?se=kbiprod&gun=4
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Old February 20, 2019, 23:42   #24
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Looks like you can send your stripped upper to Krieger, and they will install the barrel of your choice. I bet it even includes a non-bubba'd receiver extension.

The options selected here includes a new JP Enterprises bolt.

Not inexpensive. But Krieger never is.

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Old February 20, 2019, 23:44   #25
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I have a factory built Armalite AR 10, fixed buttstock 20" barrel with an A2 flash suppressor and it's quality is second to none. Fit finish function and durability (ca. 1,200 rds mil surp ball) are all you could ask for. Only gripe I have is that it is heavy as hell but the weight soaks up the recoil and as I live in my bug out retreat weight isn't such an issue anymore.
Never had a part break but I do have a full complement of factory spares, and they're all still available from the factory AFAIK. Ditto for mags, and the 30 I have will last me as long as I need, so from my perspective parts/magazine compatibility isn't an issue.
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Old February 21, 2019, 11:12   #26
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Looks like you can send your stripped upper to Krieger, and they will install the barrel of your choice. I bet it even includes a non-bubba'd receiver extension.

The options selected here includes a new JP Enterprises bolt.

Not inexpensive. But Krieger never is.

For nearly $1k, I would get a 24".

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Old February 21, 2019, 12:43   #27
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For nearly $1k, I would get a 24".

Jarhead
If that suits your use for the rifle, then that's what you get. Most of the time, a barrel of that length is going to be markedly muzzle-heavy if you try to shoot it offhand.

I don't know how far down the rabbit-hole I'm gonna go with AR-10's. I think I'll start with the buttstock replacement, and trigger replacement, then a little range-time. If she functions reliably, holds the 10 ring without a fuss, I'll just shoot it as-is.

If I'm unhappy with reliability, that has to be fixed first. If I'm unhappy with accuracy, I'll have to think some on whether I want to invest further. If I decide further investment is wise, I need to figure out what is the ideal-length barrel to get the rifle to balance on the magazine when I fire it offhand. This rifle will see range-time as competition rifle in highpower (national match course) type shooting. I rarely shoot off a bench or bipod.

The little 16" DPMS rifle shoots very well from all the highpower rifle competition positions. But, it does sacrifice velocity enough to matter at 600 yards. Also, the recoil due to light overall weight, and the muzzle-blast so close to the shooter make it the sort of rifle you don't want to shoot day-after-day. Nose-to-charging-handle firing position is absolutely out of the question. Even with a weighted buttstock, and a much heavier barrel, I'm still having doubts about putting my nose up against the charging handle of an AR-10, and expecting it not to induce a flinch.

Switching to 6.5 Creedmoor only reduces the bullet weight (and concurrently the recoil) slightly. And then it becomes a true odd-bird in the gun collection. Another bunch of ammo to build, and diminished effectiveness on larger squirrels. Pretty sure my mind is made up not to go that direction with an autoloader.
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Old February 21, 2019, 12:55   #28
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Gary,

The only issue I see with all this is you're discussing installing a $250 trigger and potentially a $925 barrel on a $600 rifle. By the time you do all that, you could have bought a Larue or one of the other expensive options and possibly had the same functionality right out of the box.

By that logic, does the old adage "You get what you pay for" hold true with AR-10s?


I am watching this thread closely because I have a PA-10 complete lower I've been sitting on with the intention of buying a budget PA-10 upper to see what I could do with it. I like the idea of an AR-10 as a ergonomic hunting rifle but after reading all over the place that PA-10s tend to be hit-or-miss on quality, I may or may not wind up selling this one at a gun show later.
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Old February 21, 2019, 14:06   #29
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Oh, and South Carolina is not (yet) charging SALES TAX to out-of-state purchasers.

(not shilling for Palmetto - just making an observation)
Nope, tried ordering from SG early January, and they added tax. And tax on the shipping. Cancelled my membership and added them to my blocked senders. Or do you mean ordering FROM Palmetto State armory and they do not charge tax?

I bought a used but little round count PSA 308 AR from somebody here in SC. The farker must have messed with the trigger, as it was very light but would not reset. I had a spare RRA NM trigger, so I put that in. Have not done much serious testing with it, but it seems to shoot ok. Came with 6 magazines, so I had another good reason to buy a Galil ACE..

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Old February 21, 2019, 14:12   #30
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Originally Posted by easttex View Post
Gary,

By the time you do all that, you could have bought a Larue or one of the other expensive...
This is true. Or close to it.

Good thing this is a hobby, and not a business.

Its still WAY CHEAPER than fixing up old cars.
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Old February 21, 2019, 14:13   #31
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do you mean ordering FROM Palmetto State armory and they do not charge tax?
Yes, ordering "FROM."

Although the recent court-decision allows the RECEIVING state to dictate what the "FROM" state has to do with regard to tax-collection.
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Old February 21, 2019, 14:35   #32
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W.E.G., I put a JP trigger in my AR 10. Took a while to get it where I liked it; you adjust, test, adjust, test, opps, go back, test, adjust...

https://www.jprifles.com/buy.php?item=JPFCP-1EZ

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Old February 21, 2019, 15:51   #33
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There are lots of good triggers out there for AR-pattern rifles, and you don't have to spend big $$$ to get one.

Frankly, the inexpensive Rock River two-stage trigger is not a bad trigger. I would probably just go with the RR trigger if i didn't need to make 4.5# minimum weight, and if I didn't mind the fact that it breaks at a very different point in the range-of-movement than the Geissele trigger I'm committed to.

Still haven't heard back from the folks at Geissele about whether they are aware of any "known issues" fitting their National Match trigger to PA-10 lowers. I've got another couple hundred 7.62 rounds that still need powder and bullets stuffed for today. Got a small patch of payin' work tomorrow. So, maybe Saturday I'll punch the staple-gun trigger out of the PA-10 and see if the Geissele trigger will just drop in.

Got some butt-swappin' and optic-mountin' needs done too. Sunday shaping-up to be a good day for some 190-yard practice. I'm gettin' 'round to it.
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Old February 21, 2019, 16:26   #34
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Here is a horse of a different color :


https://www.hiperfire.com/triggers/
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Old February 21, 2019, 21:58   #35
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Are you trying to imitate Mikhail Gorbachev?
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Old February 22, 2019, 08:18   #36
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Reply from Geissele:


Quote:
From: Geissele Automatics [mailto:support@geissele.zendesk.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2019 12:03 PM
Subject: Re: Technical Support Request

Your request (110162) has been solved.
Justin T (Geissele Automatics)
Feb 21, 12:02 PM EST

Thank you for contacting us and for your interest in our company. Currently there are no known issues regarding fitment with the second gen PA10.

Please let me know if you have any other questions.

Thank you,
Justin
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Old February 23, 2019, 16:30   #37
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The Geissele "National Match" trigger went in without incident.

Range trip this-coming week.

A few comments on comparison of weight and balance.



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Old February 23, 2019, 18:42   #38
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Also meant to mention that I checked headspace on the PSA bolt.

Closes with some resistance on a 1.630" Forster "GO" gage. Refuses to close on a Forster 1.631 gage.

Which reminds me, I need to check to see whether the DPMS bolt/carrier assembly will interchange in the PSA gun. Remember, that's the one with the "porris" bolt.
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Old February 23, 2019, 20:07   #39
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Originally Posted by W.E.G. View Post
Also meant to mention that I checked headspace on the PSA bolt.

Closes with some resistance on a 1.630" Forster "GO" gage. Refuses to close on a Forster 1.631 gage.

Which reminds me, I need to check to see whether the DPMS bolt/carrier assembly will interchange in the PSA gun. Remember, that's the one with the "porris" bolt.
CORRECTION:

I had some gage-swappery brainfarting.
Here's the revised/corrected/enhanced report

The PSA gun will swallow the 1.631 gage with the PSA bolt and carrier.
That same combo will not swallow the 1.632 gage.

If I put the DPMS carrier and "porris" bolt in the PSA gun, the PSA gun will swallow a 1.633 gage.
That same combo will not swallow a 1.634 (.308 Win. NO-GO) gage.

.
.

Now for further comparison, let's see how that swap works out on a Gen 1 DPMS LR-308T.

The DPMS gun will swallow a 1.633 gage with the DPMS carrier and "porris" bolt.
That same combo will not swallow a 1.634 (.308 Win. NO-GO) gage.

When I put the PSA bolt and carrier in the DPMS gun, the DPMS gun will swallow the 1.632 gage just barely. Bolt seems to lock up on the 1.632, but requires the "pogo" maneuver to get the gage out of the chamber.
That same combo will not swallow a 1.633 gage.

Point of all this?

I think we can say that the DPMS and PSA bolt/carrier assemblies interchange.
My particular sets are only 0.001" to 0.002" different headspace if I swap them.

On a minor note, I will also point out that the PSA carrier is cut with serrations to accomodate the forward-assist mechanism. The DPMS gun is a slick-sided gun, and has no forward-assist mechanism. Neither does the DPMS carrier have any serrations.

Remains to be seen whether the PSA bolt "loosens up" some with firing.
Do note that the "porris" DPMS bolt has a few hundred rounds on it.
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Old February 23, 2019, 20:19   #40
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One more minor difference.

A "regular" AR-15 has two holes for little-bitty springs in the ass-end.
One spring is for the takedown pin.
The other spring is for the selector.

And of course those springs are different-sized, but close enough in size that if you aren't paying attention, you might try to mix them up. Those different-sized springs don't interchange on ANY AR-type gun. One is for the takedown detent and one is for the selector.

Now, on a "regular" AR, the spring for the takedown pin is retained by a plate that gets sandwiched between the a plate that goes against the ass-end, and that plate held-down by the castle nut.
NOT the case with the PSA AR-10.
The PSA has to be different, by instead having a hole run parallel to the hole for the selector switch. Both springs are secured by the pistol grip on the ejection-port side of the rifle. So, if you remove the pistol grip, you have the chance to lose two springs, and two detents.

Otherwise, near as I can tell the two different-sized springs, and their respective detents are "regular" AR size and shape.
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Old February 23, 2019, 21:24   #41
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Originally Posted by W.E.G. View Post
One more minor difference.

A "regular" AR-15 has two holes for little-bitty springs in the ass-end.
One spring is for the takedown pin.
The other spring is for the selector.

The PSA has to be different, by instead having a hole run parallel to the hole for the selector switch. Both springs are secured by the pistol grip on the ejection-port side of the rifle. So, if you remove the pistol grip, you have the chance to lose two springs, and two detents.

Otherwise, near as I can tell the two different-sized springs, and their respective detents are "regular" AR size and shape.
A DPMS Gen 1 10 receiver is done the same way as the PSA 10.
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Old February 23, 2019, 22:01   #42
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Yep.

Just checked my LR-308T, and I see that on mine.

I suppose the do it that way with the big receivers, so that they CAN use “regular” springs for the detents.

I wish I’d looked closer when I had the buffer tube off. I’m pretty sure the buffer detent and spring on the 10 are fatter than the ones on a 15.
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Old February 24, 2019, 09:22   #43
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The buffer detent and spring are the same on 10s and 15s. There would be no reason to change since the buffer tube diameters are the same.
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Old February 24, 2019, 09:27   #44
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OK

How about that front takedown pin. Seems I read somewhere that there was something unique.
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Old February 24, 2019, 09:30   #45
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The detent and spring are the same as a 15.

Both take-down and pivot pins are larger in diameter, .280 versus .250 for 15s, and also longer.

Last edited by M90A1; February 24, 2019 at 12:31. Reason: end confusion.
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Old February 24, 2019, 09:55   #46
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I sure do have a lot of orphan 15 parts.

This could get expensive.
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Old February 24, 2019, 09:58   #47
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[COLOR="Red"]I just built two 10 lowers using the identical pieces to every 15 I've assembled
Did you build on Palmetto lowers?
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Old February 24, 2019, 10:22   #48
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I am pretty sure that the majority of the lower parts are interchangable with each other. When I decided to finally build my PSA 10 lower, the first place I went was my spare parts bins. I don't recall buying anything special except those things that were caliber specific. I do know that I had a JP trigger laying about and it went in without a hitch. And all of the other parts (catches, latches, etc) including the detents and springs fit also. Even the forward assist from the 15 fit the 10 upper. Only the dust cover and hinge pin didn't fit - too short obviously.
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Old February 24, 2019, 11:15   #49
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Did you build on Palmetto lowers?
No, but as far as I can tell, the only difference in PSA lowers and any DPMS pattern is the shape where it interfaces with the upper. That's why PSA won't fit to any DPMS upper or lower. As you discovered, regular AR, 15 or 10(same) triggers work perfectly. I believe all the internal parts interchange. PSA just wanted to make sure you couldn't use one of their receiver halves on any other company's. Marketing!!! Changing the shape of the receivers was easy, but designing all new internal parts would have been a nightmare. I could be wrong.

Oops, should have read the message above mine.

There's an edit to post 45 above. My mistake.

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Old February 24, 2019, 12:03   #50
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[

I knew I should have checked before I answered. Both pins are larger in diameter, .280 versus .250 for 15s, and also longer.
Thanks for that info!
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