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Old June 24, 2018, 20:48   #1
raubvogel
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inside of my FN-49 barrel


Sewer pipe?
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Old June 24, 2018, 21:14   #2
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It still has some rifling left to it. Clean the shit out of it, buy extra bose brushes as you'll need them. You never know, it "might" clean up. I've had barrels that looked like a lost cause, only to clean them well and have them shoot fine. I sold a kit a few years ago, member sent it back because it had a bad bore. I cleaned it, built the kit, and sold it a couple years later to 12V71. Ask him how it shoots. A real good cleaning just may save that one, you'll not know till you try.
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Old June 24, 2018, 21:47   #3
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Thanks for raising my hopes. How to try to clean it? Bronze brush (I also have nylon ones), Hoppes 9, and elbow grease?
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Old June 24, 2018, 21:53   #4
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Yeah, bronze brushes. You'll need plenty bore cleaner and patches as well, good chance even if it looks a bit rough afterwards, it may shoot fine anyway.
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What if the Mystery Babalon described in Revelation, which is destroyed by the nations of the North, is actually America?

The biggest problem with religion is those who claim to know Jesus, then turn around and deny Him with their lifestyle. That is what a unbelieving world, simply finds unbelievable.

Before you die, you should have a will with extra copies. The old saying "No one will screw you faster than family" is bloody well true.

Women are dangerous. All warm, soft and cuddly on the outside, and berserker, Ragnarok crazy upstairs in the control room.
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Old June 24, 2018, 22:06   #5
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Yeah, what they said. Looks like the rifling is still sharp. Had a barrel that looked much like that in a Steyr M12 pistol. A dental pick, lots Hoppes 9 soaking, and lots of bronze brush work cleaned it up nicely.
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Old June 24, 2018, 22:24   #6
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sweets 7.62 or ammonia. If an 8mm, Springfield Sporters et al have 1000+ new barrels at $70. or less. I charge $150 for a rebarrel.

If you're not grouping sub 1" at 25 yards, you might consider a new barrel.

Their website seems to be down right now, but they have crates of new 8mm barrels stacked to the ceiling of their warehouse. There was a time when SARCO was selling them for 10 for $200.
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Old June 24, 2018, 22:25   #7
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Hydrogen peroxide sometimes works pretty good in breaking down bore rust

Bronze brushes are Okay but for real problem barrels try a Brownells Tornado brush. Another trick is using them at lower speeds chucked in an electric hand drill.

Electrolysis can do wonders as well...
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Old June 24, 2018, 22:29   #8
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308/223shooter and skinnydash: thanks for the info. I guess I need to stockpile them. And to think I was at wally world earlier today...

gunplumber, funny you mentioned sweets 7.62; I actually have a bottle I've never figured out why I bought to begin with. I know I bought the bronze brushes to use with it, but that is it. I might need to reread how to use it.

Incidentally, it is a 30-06, which is why in your FN-49 thread I offered to loan the trigger group.

Riversidesports, to think I missed the Brownells free shipping day.
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All I'm really asking for here is a knife that will not jam and a unicorn that doesn't need sharpening. Will_Power
It's been my experience that all you really need to harvest a deer is a car. They come right through the windshield just fine. 357ross
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Old June 24, 2018, 22:34   #9
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ammonia is a tricky substance to use. I don't know exactly what Sweets is, but my best guess is "geletanized ammonia". Ammonia attacks copper. But it can also attack carbon steel. Just slower. Do swab the bore with sweets, wait 20 minutes, and scrub with brush and patch. Repeat. But don't leave any ammonia just sitting there for weeks on end because (theoretically, I haven't done destructive tests), it will eventually attack the bore itself.

So when you're done, rinse with water,


I've gotten some horrible barrels to "sucks less" with this technique.


In my 25 years messing with FN 49s, I've found only one NIW FN 49 barrel in .30-06.
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Old June 24, 2018, 23:12   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 308/223shooter View Post
It still has some rifling left to it. Clean the shit out of it, buy extra bose brushes as you'll need them. You never know, it "might" clean up. I've had barrels that looked like a lost cause, only to clean them well and have them shoot fine. I sold a kit a few years ago, member sent it back because it had a bad bore. I cleaned it, built the kit, and sold it a couple years later to 12V71. Ask him how it shoots. A real good cleaning just may save that one, you'll not know till you try.
The Para? Yes it shoots very well with PMC 147FMJ, and the bore looks fine now. And you did fully disclose the possible issue when I bought it.
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Old June 24, 2018, 23:59   #11
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Yeah, that was the one I used { before the para conversion } to nail those 400 something yard plates at Brush's place. I miss that sucker, but I'm glad it went to a good home.
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What if the Mystery Babalon described in Revelation, which is destroyed by the nations of the North, is actually America?

The biggest problem with religion is those who claim to know Jesus, then turn around and deny Him with their lifestyle. That is what a unbelieving world, simply finds unbelievable.

Before you die, you should have a will with extra copies. The old saying "No one will screw you faster than family" is bloody well true.

Women are dangerous. All warm, soft and cuddly on the outside, and berserker, Ragnarok crazy upstairs in the control room.
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Old June 25, 2018, 04:53   #12
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Consider using Forrest "Milfoam" bore cleaner. we used it on everything up to 25mm. It is far better to use compared to Sweets or similar. You may find you will have to work your way down through layers of copper and carbon bore fouling.


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Originally Posted by raubvogel View Post
Thanks for raising my hopes. How to try to clean it? Bronze brush (I also have nylon ones), Hoppes 9, and elbow grease?
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Old June 25, 2018, 12:14   #13
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Carboned up barrel

I'd try what GunPlumber said first. We used to use it when shooting High Power
with M1A Supermatch rifles and after a event and then followed up with shooter choice's.
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Old June 26, 2018, 05:24   #14
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Thanks for all the suggestions. I will stockpile bronze brushes and then strip it down to a barrelled receiver before doing it, so it is easier to work with it.
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All I'm really asking for here is a knife that will not jam and a unicorn that doesn't need sharpening. Will_Power
It's been my experience that all you really need to harvest a deer is a car. They come right through the windshield just fine. 357ross
That poop is priceless. MFC
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Old June 30, 2018, 22:02   #15
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I did some scrubbing:
  1. Coat inside of the barrel with Sweet stuff
  2. Let is sit for 20 min
  3. Scrub for a minute with a bronze brush
  4. Go to step 1

After almost 2h, I then call it quits, washed the inside of the barrel with scalding water, and then coated it with oil. As I run an oily (Rem oil) patch inside barrel, at first it looked rather black and then eventually started to clean up. I took took pictures of how the inside of the barrel looks like a few moments ago.

Do you think I managed to improve things a bit? Or it looks like the same as before (i.e. I was nor tenacious enough in my scrubbing)?
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File Type: jpg FN49_inside-barrel_03.jpg (63.8 KB, 158 views)
File Type: jpg FN49_inside-barrel_04.jpg (58.8 KB, 129 views)
File Type: jpg FN49_inside-barrel_05.jpg (42.1 KB, 154 views)
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All I'm really asking for here is a knife that will not jam and a unicorn that doesn't need sharpening. Will_Power
It's been my experience that all you really need to harvest a deer is a car. They come right through the windshield just fine. 357ross
That poop is priceless. MFC
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Old July 01, 2018, 11:30   #16
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Well, photo number 5 looks better. Were all 3 of these images taken at the same time?

Anyway, have you fired the rifle yet? Sometimes even fairly rough bores can still deliver acceptable accuracy.
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Old July 01, 2018, 15:22   #17
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On barrels like yours I have plugged the bore and filled it with Hoppes #9 and then let sit for a day or so. I would then scrub the bore with a bronze bore brush attached to a electric drill. If that does not help, then repeat the technique using Sweets 7.62.

As someone else mentioned, Electrolysis cleaning may produce better results.
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Old July 01, 2018, 16:37   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goose52 View Post
Well, photo number 5 looks better. Were all 3 of these images taken at the same time?
Yep. The first 2 I took when I received my Anal prober (maybe not to Alien Specs but it was from Amazon)/Borescope thingie. Can't adjust the focus, the picture is shown on its max resolution, and I had to put a light at the end of the tunnel because its camera lights would wash out everything.

The last 3 were after I did the cleaning and run oily patches in the barrel.

I do agree pict 5 makes me wonder if I should keep on cleaning. I need to see if I have a before pict of that same area.

Since rifle is still apart, I will take more pictures of the muzzle end because I have a feeling rifling there might have been destroyed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goose52 View Post
Anyway, have you fired the rifle yet? Sometimes even fairly rough bores can still deliver acceptable accuracy.
Not since I have cleaned. When I first shot it -- at 25yd -- it seemed holes were all over the paper to the point that sighting it was useless. Which is why I wanted to see the inside of the barrel.

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On barrels like yours I have plugged the bore and filled it with Hoppes #9 and then let sit for a day or so. I would then scrub the bore with a bronze bore brush attached to a electric drill. If that does not help, then repeat the technique using Sweets 7.62.
My cleaning rod rotates around the handle. If I can figure out how to remove the handle I am willing to try that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by garandguy10 View Post
As someone else mentioned, Electrolysis cleaning may produce better results.
I've never done that but it is a option on the table.
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All I'm really asking for here is a knife that will not jam and a unicorn that doesn't need sharpening. Will_Power
It's been my experience that all you really need to harvest a deer is a car. They come right through the windshield just fine. 357ross
That poop is priceless. MFC
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Old July 01, 2018, 16:54   #19
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Is this a Luxembourg rifle? If so, what markings are on the forward, left side of the receiver? There should be a "bomb"(number) stamped there (or a series of bomb#s). Just wondering what condition the barrel was in when it was in Lux service...
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Old July 01, 2018, 17:20   #20
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Consider using Forrest "Milfoam", It is easier to use and will indicate if there is copper still in the bore by giving the blue indicator on cleaning patches. A cleaning rod chucked in electric drill risks further wear/damage to the rifling. "Sweets is 1960 technology compared to Forrest "Milfoam"


Quote:
Originally Posted by raubvogel View Post
Yep. The first 2 I took when I received my Anal prober (maybe not to Alien Specs but it was from Amazon)/Borescope thingie. Can't adjust the focus, the picture is shown on its max resolution, and I had to put a light at the end of the tunnel because its camera lights would wash out everything.

The last 3 were after I did the cleaning and run oily patches in the barrel.

I do agree pict 5 makes me wonder if I should keep on cleaning. I need to see if I have a before pict of that same area.

Since rifle is still apart, I will take more pictures of the muzzle end because I have a feeling rifling there might have been destroyed.



Not since I have cleaned. When I first shot it -- at 25yd -- it seemed holes were all over the paper to the point that sighting it was useless. Which is why I wanted to see the inside of the barrel.



My cleaning rod rotates around the handle. If I can figure out how to remove the handle I am willing to try that.



I've never done that but it is a option on the table.
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Old September 09, 2018, 15:40   #21
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After all the cleaning I've done above, last weekend I got to shoot the FN49. I brought with me
5 rounds of PPU Garand ammo (what I had left from http://falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=423090)
10 rounds of 150gr bullet in front of 44.8gr of IMR 4895 as mentioned in http://falfiles.com/forums/showpost....7&postcount=10
10 rounds of 150gr bullet in front of 46.0gr of IMR 4895 as mentioned in http://falfiles.com/forums/showpost....7&postcount=10

I also brought a M1 Garand to serve as reference point. And a Model 8 because it was the first time I took it out.

Here are the results on a piece of paper about 25yd from me. I was trying to be more consistent than super accurate but did rest each firearm on the same front support the same way. I tried to colour each group, but bottom line is the FN-49 was a scattergun.


In order:
Yellow: Remington Model 8. I shall not talk about it because it has nothing to do with this discussion. But happy I was not.
Green: 5 rounds, FN-49 PPU aimed at the center of target
Light Blue: 5 rounds, FN-49 44.8gr of IMR 4895 aimed at the center of target
Dark Blue: 5 rounds, FN-49 46.0gr of IMR 4895 aimed at the center of target
Pink: 5 rounds, Garand 44.8gr of IMR 4895 aimed at the bottom corner of the outer losange
Brown: 5 rounds, Garand 46.0gr of IMR 4895 aimed at the top corner of the outer losange

I understand that grouping at 25yd may not represent what it can do at a longer distance, and maybe I should have turned the gas down a bit because the FN49 seemed to have kicked me more than the Garand. And the Garand trigger felt nice. But, that is the data I have to show. What should I try next?
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All I'm really asking for here is a knife that will not jam and a unicorn that doesn't need sharpening. Will_Power
It's been my experience that all you really need to harvest a deer is a car. They come right through the windshield just fine. 357ross
That poop is priceless. MFC
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Old September 09, 2018, 17:24   #22
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Was the bore rusted?
I just etched the rust out of a steel motorcycle fuel tank with a mild acid solution of white vinegar and table salt. I am wondering if that would work for rusted bores too.
I watched the etch progress carefully to ensure it was not over aggressive and then let it sit overnight when I was satisfied it was not going to chew thru good steel. Neutralized the etch with a baking soda and water solution, removed the water with alcohol and immediatly treated with marvel mystery oil to prevent flash rust. Looks like new inside now.
And if the bore on that rifle looks so bad what about the crown? Perhaps a crown job would help if it has been damaged.
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Old September 09, 2018, 23:41   #23
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Bore measurement

Have you slugged the bore to see if it is close to .308 ? I use a soft lead sinker from Wally mart - drive it on thru with a wood dowel + some oil in bore. JB's bore paste will cut a lot of crud from the bore also.
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Old September 14, 2018, 10:22   #24
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I'd clean the bore using Ed's Red and bore brushes before going with ammonia based cleaners.

I had some Danish Garand kits back in the day that were very dark that cleaned up nice after Ed's Red. Think they shot lots of blanks in them or something.
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Old September 22, 2018, 15:51   #25
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Prior to 1964 all U.S. manufactured military 30-06 was corrosive. Much of the 30-06 produced in other parts of the world used corrosive primers. U.S. manufactured ammunition, and much of the 30-06 produced in other countries sealed the bullet into the case using a asphault type sealant. You are probably dealing with layers of copper, asphault, and corrosive primer residue. I've cleaned up several barrels soaking the bore using Hoppe's, or Ed's Red, or Kano Kroil, to loosen the coats of goo, then scrubbing them with a few strokes with a bronze brush, wiping them dry with a clean patch, scrubbing the bore with Rem Clean, or JB Bore Paste on one of the VFG System cotton plugs that Brownell's sells. Clean with Hoppe's or your favorite solvent, then repeat the soaking process until you see bare steel. Pitting shouldn't have an adverse effect on accuracy. Check the crown. That will have an effect on your accuracy.
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Old September 22, 2018, 21:32   #26
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Get some copper or brass kitchen scrub pads, tear some pieces off, and wrap them around an old .22 brush. This is also a great way to rejuvenate old worn out cleaning rods for tough cleaning jobs.

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Old September 24, 2018, 23:51   #27
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How does the gas cylinder and oprod look pitting-wise? if they are smooth and good it could be that you have decades of fouling built up in the barrel and not pitting from rust.

I had surprisingly good results with a 1917 barrel that looked like a gravel road. I plugged the chamber and filling the bore with ATF. I let it sit for a week and brushed it. I found a shiny barrel with sharp rifling.
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Old September 25, 2018, 18:29   #28
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Some other products that I've had some success with in cleaning very dirty and some rusty bores.

Run some patches or a brush wet with Kroil, let it soak for an hour or more then clean as normal.

Frontier 45 makes a product that works surprisingly well. I've wrapped some strands of this around a worn out brush and was able to remove rust from a 'sewer pipe' bore. I was surprised that they only charge $6 shipped for it! Works great. The stuff also works like magic on blued finishes with light surface rust, too.
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Old September 25, 2018, 18:42   #29
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Quote:
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Run some patches or a brush wet with Kroil, let it soak for an hour or more then clean as normal.
I think most any penetrating oil will help immensely with eons of caked-up crud. I've used G96 to clean up some nasty bores.
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